Sir Grump Munch

Hi, I linked here from the ecoanimalallies site. Attending grad school may not be as hopeless as you think it is. It is standard for certain departments (depending on the field of study) at many schools pay you to teach a class, or do research, while you're attending, and tuition is also often waived. So it's like you're being paid to go to school. I could live off the money I make TAing at my grad program in philosophy (but I usually take out a small, government-subsidized loan so money's not quite so tight).

Cheer up, buckaroo! The roommate factor is always a good way to add some chaos to your life, and to meet more peeps. or MAYBE you should move away from chicago and ... something something something..

I often stop by and read your entries, but this one kind of tugged at my heart strings. Maybe it's that picture of you off to the side of the screen or maybe it's the uncanny feeling of understanding I am filled with when I read this post in particular. I also reside in Chicago and am beginning to tire of it and long to "get out and go elsewhere." I also am sick to death of my line of work and want to get back to school to change that. I fall into these periodic depressive/isolated days and want nothing more than to snap my fingers and make things different but then somehow I pick up and keep going (very reluctantly sometimes I might add). I wish the best for you in whatever you decide to do in your life and hope that things begin to look up for you soon.

Dude. Yr blood-brother Ryno here, feelin' ya. I'm in a goddamn funk, too, hoss. I can't find a fucking job to save my life, and spend day after day sweatin' it out, shooting off resumes and lying around pounding my head trying to come up with ideas. A significant lack of cohorts on call, with all-y'all scattered about the country now, and a just-about-completely-fizzled-out relationship with my quasi-girlfriend/transendental chanting spiritual yoga advisor leaves me a little lacking in the social fun dept. (Though Kurt moving back here, and having a studio to get some work done in has been real nice.) From time to time, myself, I start thinkin' about that "grad school" thing—and then quickly snap back to reality. Fuck that bullshit. What a fucking waste of time and money. Spending two years sitting around with a bunch of heavy-handed inter-lectural jar heads, babbling about Alan Kaprow and the aesthetic relevance of the dog shit stuck to the bottom of their shoe, only to walk out another high-minded dumb fuck with a masters' degree in Artshit and a nice addition to my debt collection, hoping to snare that job teaching "Advertising Design Concepts 1" at the Southeast Hopkins Community and Vocational College or wait tables at some snotty restaraunt with too many forks is not my idea of personal advancement. I tell you what, you little shit, you give me $15 grand a semester (which I will make ridiculously short to cut down on operating consts), and I'll sit around with you, gurgling bullshit about distant plains of understanding; harshly critique your work to give each day that rough, real-world, no messing around feel (but mainly to boost my own artfuck ego); round up some people to do likewise and gossip with over some $8 Absolut® Apple Martinis and deep fried Calamari poppers at some fuck-bucket bar/restaraunt with that "LA" feel and that "fresh off the showroom floor" look and embroidered cloth napkins. Then, after two years of this bullshit, I'll send you out the door. At this point you'll probably do a U-Turn and come right back in to apply for your job as Adjunct Faculty, teaching Introduction to Making Cool Shit in Photoshop 101 for a couple thousand dollars a course and no benefits. PJ, my friend, College/Graduate School is the biggest goddamn racket ever concieved by anyone. Stay the fuck away from that bullshit. Go have a couple beers, lighten up, and get laid. You'll feel a whole world and a half better.

>>I'm sure a particular MFA buyer who we'll call "A.M." (to hide his identity) will take issue with my words, here. To A.M., I say - in advance,
"Save it. I don't care."

Best "Comment" Ever.
-a "the degreeless" j

Grad school is bullshit. I agree with everything my more eloquent brethren said... If you were a liberal arts major in undergrad, and you decided you wanted to be a graphic designer, and your rich ass parents wanted to spoil you for another 2 years grad school would make perfect sense. For middle class midwest chumps like us, "graduate school" doesn't quite add up.

If your looking for an adventure, move to Liberia.

Ryan, Re: the importance of college:
"i'm really amazied by your foolish concept that you are at the level to be able to "teach" classes here at mcad. a freshman candy raver from the midwest, who has learned photoshop well enough to run the nine inch nails logo through filters does not make up for a college degree, i'm sorry if that dissapoints you. you're going to have to take entry level classes, no matter where you go or what you do. i'm sure your skills on the mouse are far more amazing than anyone else shy of the senior class, but having no college credit, you're going to have to establish such."

COWARDS! ALL OF YOU!

Flight of Iron Pegasus.

A word to Ryno: “Well put. Real good.” Proud of ya.

Grad school ain’t the way to go.

Bunch of fuckin’ schlups “second –chancing” it, sucking off the teats of a whole ‘nother bunch of schlups (carrot-dangling professors) who are “third-timing” it.

You guys have “got it”, but you gotta make it happen. You all have talent, and how you wield is the critical challenge.

You just gotta find that “outlet” that makes you a living and also puts a smile on yer face.

Each month that school loan comes up and it burns…how many more months?! So many years ahead of me–good years– where I’m paying for Kali to shred students and whatever else…keeping the monitors on for downloading Star Wars trailers and shit.

I justify my time in school as “two years to put things into perspective, fine tune some skills and make a go at the world.” Basically, I paid big bucks for a “two year break” from the rest of the world. I loved it, and realized the amazing opportunity to learn a bunch of new stuff (welding, spot welds, aluminum polishing) and take some time to figure things out. Some fuckers will chase this deal for the rest of their lives. Fuck that. We got some living to do.

It might be a solution of “joining forces and investing in every goddamn honest tool under the sun” to “pave a road that leads to the sorts of places we wanna go”. H, H&H? Might be worth a go? If Aesthetic Apparatus can do it…well…

Maybe it comes down to “rattling the pages” of the wanted ads to see what’s out there. Might be a better deal down the street.

Maybe it ain’t design or illustration or painting…

I could set you up with a lengthy summer tour in Alaska where the Moose come stompin’ out of the woods and the women, well, they emit a Alpine nectar that goes by no name but could awaken even the most comatose Grizz from his winter sleep.

Maybe we should pool the funds and “go walk the earth” for a year. Get a extended Econoline outfitted with bunks and go see the world. Follow the cool temps all year long…Fall in the Midwest, Winter down south, Spring in the West, Summer in the Yukon…etc. No girlfriends or rents or electric bills. Just cheap meals and loose broads and campfires and other bullshit.

Goodnight, I’m going to bed, next to a warm gal, in the cool Northwest air, “getting some sleep” so I can “be busy” all day tomorrow making watches and ads and shit.

am i the only person who actually liked school and enjoyed the exchange of ideas unknown to the likes of many a high school friend and teacher alike? or perhaps, more to the point, liked meeting the people i would be friends with for the rest of my days?

Yeah, before we write college off as nothing greater than 10 years of hefty loan payments, let's not forget that I wouldn't know most of you bastards if it weren't for a little place called "Viet Nam" ... I mean "M-CAD." I fucking loved college and have no regrets about it. If I hadn't gone I'd probably still be living in Paw Paw, sitting in the Sportsman's Tavern, cursing my life, putting a down payment on a new pickup and loading cases of grape juice concentrate onto a conveyor belt for 8 or 12 hours a day at a factory...if I was lucky enough to have a job at all. And MCAD can quote that in their next goddamn catalog.

Hey, Hoss...
Dog bless MSAD and all for pulling us all together like fuckin' Voltron. I thought college was great and all that, socially, growin-pains, teeth cuttin', all that hoo-hah. Good times, blood bros, etc. But it put a nice dent in my income for years to come that I don't want to add on to with a couple "bonus years" of quasi-intellectual ass speak. Maybe if I got some sweat deal with a cash stipend and tuition ride, I could be leg-pulled into spendin' a couple years flexin' the studio muscles. That's essentially free time, and an extremely rare situation.

I'm ready to fuckin' go back to Truck Driving school, or Locksmithing or some shit. Noboby wants to fuckin' hire an art fuck. Too many spaced-out hippie flake Grad-School fuckers have ruined our rep.

if the cost of knowing you, ryan, is thousands of dollars and some spilt tears, well I will gladly pay.

PJ-the beef here ain't college. I don't even think that Raging Ryno is trying to write that one off.. All were trying to do is dispell the myth of "graduate school" being some kind of bullshit that you need to pursue. You got everything you needed out of MCAD to be a gay little vegan designer for the rest of your life.

Ryno and Berling, I'm sorry to say, you are much more closed minded than I thought. Yes, grad school is not for everyone, but for open minded individuals that like to be challenged and explore alternative avenues, grad school can be priceless.

Berling, you might be making bank by creating things that are "pretty" and pushing type around on a screen thinking you are doing something conceptual, but trust me my son, style isn't everything and it isn't going to take you very far. Don't you realize why there is so much bad design in the field of motion graphics, because it's a bunch of uneducated fucks that think if they learn after effects, they are a designers too. Look at web design, "learn Dreamweaver and you to can be a web designer". You would be doing the same fuckin thing if you didn't go to MCAD, imagine what you can do with two more years of solid education. Think about it. Remember you went to an Art School where 95% of the teachers recieved their degree from University of Mickey Fuckin Mouse, do you actually think grad school is the same level of teaching,,,no!

One would think that I went to grad school but the answer is no and I'm also not saying I'm doing the "grandiose conceptual". In the field of motion graphics, there are very few studios that are able to pull off original, conceptual work. Those studios that are pulling off great conceptual work are the ones that can sale design to the client and explain to them why one direction is better than creating something that has already been done fifty times. Those studios are also run by people that went to grad school...

love jh

Go to Grad Skool?
I'd rather be Mouth Fucked
by Nazis, unconscious ....

I think grad school would be a great place to meet your fututre girlfriend. And then if she has a cute friend, well then that's all the better for me, since I wont be going to grad school ever. People like Greg Dickerson go to grad school and draw abstract pictures of suns with Cray Paas and then graduate. (sorry Ryno, I know he is your bud, but you gotta admit that work was pretty bad...)

In that case, let me give you a head start:

http://www.huge-big-massive-monster-cocks.com/

enjoy

I'm a cave man
your modern ways frighten and confuse me
I watch the spirit box
with the blinking lights and think,
"Are those little people trapped in that box?"

Like I said, grad school is not for everybody!

Sounds like Greg is a prime example of somebody that should have spent his money collecting the "Barracks Glory Hole Part 1-9" series vs. going to grad school.

jh

Hey man, I went through the same thing... I got sick of sitting in front of a computer all day long and lost almost all interest in design. The problem is, when graphic design becomes WORK instead of FUN, it takes a little bit of the enjoyment out of it. Especially when you have sales and marketing people breathing down your neck.

I've been away for a bit, so I am late responding.
I agree with John H (not sure who he is, but seems like a champ). Grad school is NOT for everyone.

This whole thread...it's odd the ones here pretending to be the most knowledgeable didn't actually go to grad school. In a similar fashion, when I was an undergrad, the most vocal ones to bash going to college or art school were the ones who didn't or couldn't go.

To all those that know PJ (especially the ones who went to art school...I would ask you this about ONE benefit of grad. school-what do you think of PJ as a potential teacher? This is one guy I could see being damn fine in front of a class. Think of the art teachers that really inspired you (Piotr S., Jan J., Joe M., Kinji A., Kali N., whoever). Could you see PJ as being someone like that?

Interesting note- I know ALL you MCADians admire one or most of these teachers I listed and probably a few more. Consider what they have in common- they ALL went to grad. school.

PJ as a teacher-PJ was fucking brilliant in crits., cares about design/creativity, is very knowledgeable, can speak/communicate in front of others, produces good design, and already has some international contacts/expereinces that could be brought to a class (possibly set up exchanges).

Outside of teaching and as John H pointed out-some of the best design studios (not just motion) are being run by people with MFAs.

A good grad. school can bring your work to the next level. No, it's not for all and I know plenty of great designers who didn't go to grad. school. What worked for them might not work for you.

A friend of mine in undergrad. made a good point once- "it's an awful lot of money for a maybe." I'd add "it's an awful lot of money, TIME, and ENERGY for a maybe."

To Draplin- I dunno, you usually are more open minded on other people's differences. I would think with the life of many changes you led would have taught you "different strokes for different folks."

To R.S.- I don't care either. Stereotypical rants from you got old long ago.

I do know this-my design work and life were "in a funk" round about 1996. I'm glad I went to grad school. Changed my design and life. Not every experience was good, but the good outweigh the bad. Also, I don't think I would have had the good life and luck Andrew Jenkins did. Glad you made it work as "degreeless" (as you put it) though Andrew and I dig your posters.

Yes, there are bullshit concepts, teachers, ideas, programs, etc. in grad schools. Still...many of you fine MCADians probably can agree the same can be said for UNDERGRAD. programs and look what MCAD did for your work.
Berling- you think you would have got the job you did without college taking you "to the next level"?
Draplin- your own web log commented on what your old community college portfolio looked like compared to what you produced later.

Still...I have to wonder if my friends (outside of R.S.) really think what they wrote here about all people who actually went to grad. school. This list does include the people they studied under at MCAD with...and...
me.

Eyes forward and minds open.

Bliss,

I had no idea there was such a heating debate going on here. Grad school... I guess people have mixed feelings about it, huh? I'm starting my 3rd year of grad school in a couple of weeks. The last two years have been a tough journey for me in a lot of ways. But I don't think this has been a watse of time and money. I've gained/learned much more than before I started even though I didn't make that many art works that I'm satisfied with.

I don't think this is an issue of whether grad school is good or bad. john hudson is right about that grad school is not for everyone. It's great that Pj has rising desire to seek time to focus on himself and art/design work to benefit him. It is also fine that Ryan doesn't believe in grad school. Because it's probablly not a right thing for Ryan if he has that sort of opinion. And it'll be good for Pj since he really craves that self-seeking period. Then it will be the right thing for him.

I even wish that I had 4 years of grad school. I thought 3 years is too long but as the first two years went by so quick and I haven't absorbed as much as i hoped, one more year would be a good amount of time for me. Of course that varies person to person. Some might be just fine with 2 years and some others would take 5years. People mentioned about financial issue that comes with grad school. You might just try/apply and see what happens with it. Typically, grad school sets you up with some kind of chunk of money. I would think that state universities generally have a lot more funding than private (art) schools. I, myself got a two-year full ride with stipend every month. (I paid for nothing past two years!) That came to me as a complete surprise but it was certainly a good thing and I took it. I think your effort will bring reward in the end. If you weren't offered a good deal then you can simply not go there. Negotiation with school is possible as well.

I think Pj, you should start with researching and see if there are any schools that could possibly give you money to go and of course schools that you are interested in. Then you can always worry about money afterwards depending on what you find out.

I hope you'll see this message.
ki